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Post by blackestofmages on Aug 9, 2012 8:43:42 GMT -5
well, we're just waiting for them to be aproved/proofread
I have a few ideas, mostly around elemental types. jus trying to get the wiki up to shape before expanding the back log further.
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Post by fimbulvinter87 on Feb 2, 2013 10:31:59 GMT -5
Ok, after 1 year (and some months) my little worthless brain come up with something for a "free-build Doll" system. All Abilities of the Doll should be divided into 3 branches: minor, average, major (or something like that) and every branch should have at least... dunno... 6-to-10 abilities that can be "purchased" every now and then (i thought about level requirements)...
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Post by blackestofmages on Feb 19, 2013 11:49:32 GMT -5
hmmm, so something like getting X minor, X average and X major? sounds good
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rater202
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Post by rater202 on Apr 20, 2013 9:36:13 GMT -5
I am not sure if this is the right place to say this; but since Bount are supposed to be ageless when well fed, maybe they should have a class feature that lets them spend SEP to negate death and ageing affects directed against them. something like 1+SEP used to activate ability or total hit point and/or ability damage/drain caused by the ageing effects whichever is higher
Also, while having there SEP pool be tied to there HP makes sense from a flavor stand point, it doesn't really make sense from what I've read in the rest of the rules for how SEP works. since there age category affects are tide to there SEP pool as well you could make it so that if there SEP pool is at 50% or less the Bount takes 2-4 points of temporary con damage that can only be Healed by raising there SEP again. That way we have the feeling that the Bount's life force and spirit energy are tide together without gimping the class. Consider that it is entirely possible, the way the class is written now, to accidently bring yourself to zero health while still having plenty of SEP left, depending on your Reitsu score.
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 21, 2013 11:31:03 GMT -5
hmmmm, 1 sep might be a bit much for full death immunity. still, it's a good concept and fits the theme
One of these days I really need to read the bounto rules. I thought they could just use their HP as SEP as well as a normal SEP pool?
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Post by rater202 on Apr 21, 2013 13:30:14 GMT -5
when I say death effects, I mean supernatural abilities that drain life force from the target, like a vampires energy drain in 3.5, not any effect that kills you.
Here's an example of how I thought it would work: Lets say that my Bount( here afterword referred to as Fred), is fighting Baraggan Louisenbairn. lets say that Baraggan's Respira ability costs him 10 SEP to activate and dose 4d8 points of damage to the target. this is an ageing effect. If Fred is targeted by Respira, he could pay 11 SEP (1+ the effects activation cost) or 1+ whatever was rolled as damage (5-33 points), which ever cost would be higher, in order to negate the effect, or reduce the damage taken if he did not have enough SEP to negate the effect.
1 point of ability damage would be equal to 3 point of hit point damage, ability drain would be worth 5, and negative levels would be 8. An instant death effect would cost twice it's activation cost to negate, half again if it did not allow a save.
If an ability that forcible ages them allows a save to negate, the Bount must use the ability before attempting the save. however if it allows a save to reduce the affect the Bount can make the save before using the ability.
I also figured that the SEP limit should not apply to this ability, but in exchange the Bount has no choice but to use the ability when targeted by an appropriate effect, even if they don't want to negate it.
So in my above mentioned scenario, Fred could probably last a few rounds with Baraggan but would need to finish the fight quickly. (preferably by killing Baraggan and devouring his thousands of souls to recoup the centuries taken away by several rounds exposed to Respira.)
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 21, 2013 16:57:33 GMT -5
me too. The problem was that, from your previous wording, it seemed like you meant 1 SEP to negate any effect of that type, rather than the variable cost. +1 seems fine I disagree here. Using your example or barrigan, his Resperia aged things in about 2000 years in a few second. A fully fed bounto might make it through that, but they're still going to be on their last legs. Simply because Barrigan is that powerful, I don;t think that your average mook's resistance would be enough to survive it (and at level 3 pretty much everyone has enough SEP to tank through a single shot) I can see it being useful to soften the impact of the attack, but not a flat out immunity.
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Post by rater202 on Apr 21, 2013 19:47:32 GMT -5
I gave Baraggan as an example of someone who uses ageing affects since to my knowledge the system doesn't have rules for them yet. Also I should have mentioned this but I was assuming that my hypothetical Bount (Fred) was at a level of power comparable to Baraggan's, but I forgot to state that.
My logic for it being automatic is that a Bount is effectively ageless while fed. Using the ability, the Bount is still suffering the ravages of time, but is not ageing due to their inherent quasi-immortality. Since they are effectively experiencing years, decades, or centuries, they still loose time from there life span, which is tide to their spirit energy, which in tern can only be replenished by eating souls.
TL/DR: think a passive defense, that can't be suppressed, and is Cast from lifespan.
of course I am a self admitted power gamer, so anything I like should probably be considered skewed towards over powered by more rational gamers. so if my ability were to be included it would probably have to be nerfed to some extent.
To be honest the Idea came to me while reading Baraggan's TV tropes entry and seeing his speech on how nothing can survive old age. I got the mental image of him using his power on a Bount or other "Immortal" entity, and then having a fit when it did not do anything.
To Change the topic, what do you think about a Bount-Hollow prestige class. My Idea is that the Bount's Doll, end eventually the Bount himself, would gain access to hollow abilities, when the Bount ate all the hollowfide souls that make up a menos. with a capstone ability that was more or less the an improved version of timeless body from 3.5. Hollows canonically don't have ages, Bount don't age when they have eaten enough souls, and menos are made up of hundreds, if not thousands, of spiritually powerful souls. consuming thousands of souls should in theory grant a good few centuries of life to the Bount. If those three factors were to be combined, it could lead to an improved form of quasi immortality. Perhaps if my above suggested class feature is not added to the main Bount, it could be a feature for this Hypothetical class.
The Bount's pseudo-immortality comes from more or less being a hybrid of human and Shinigami. so maybe the Bount that discovered this method of hybridization thought that further hybridization could grant true immortality. obviously not, but it would become pretty close, eventualy
The Bount's doll would gain the ability to use Ceros, and gain an as of yet undetermined number of hollow abilities. the Bount meanwhile would gain a cero of his own, and improvements to his Agelessness, that would be dependent on him continuing to eat hollow souls. perhaps a class feature allowing the doll to eat souls and transfer them to the Bount? I was thinking it would be a ten level class. with prerequisites preventing the character from taking it before level 10. so the flat out immunity to ageing effects wouldn't be a big issue unless you were going into the epic levels, at which point there would be other people with abilities just as broken as yours.
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 21, 2013 21:47:50 GMT -5
I understand that - my problem is that since it effectively grants very cheap (since bount should be able to use their SEP pool as well as their HP) immunity to any form of negative stats and instant death effects. It's not the immunity to aging that's the problem (heck, I've only once seen aging come up in a game outside of starting ages), it's the immunity to negative stats. because that's a pretty big immunity. hence why I'm uncomfortable about it passing the SEP limit though I'll budge on action, I still feel being able to say lol-no to a level 20 character at level 3 is a bit silly. It'd be fine if bob could take barrigan in a fight, but if bob would normally be a smear on barrigan's she then it makes less sense. as to the PrC suggestion, that looks good
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Post by rater202 on Apr 21, 2013 22:02:33 GMT -5
Maybe add a clause stating that it doesn't work on the abilities of a character more than 5 levels higher than the Bount, or something along those lines. And if that's still to powerful we can always make it a feature of this hybrid class I'm working on.
I'm a bit surprised there isn't a Hollow/Bount already. you'd think giving one soul eating monster the powers of an other soul eating monster would be one of the first things people would come up with, once cannon stuff had already been covered.
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 21, 2013 22:06:38 GMT -5
first suggestion is good and as to why there's no bounto hybrid class yet - that class is still very heavily in beta, and a lot of us tend to forget about it XD we really should have made some sooner...
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Post by rater202 on Apr 21, 2013 22:56:41 GMT -5
I've noticed the still in beta thing. Specifically it says that the Bount may eat the souls of anyone/thing the deliver a killing blow on, but doesn't say what effect it has on the Bount. Add the fact that Bount can apparently only regain SEP by eating souls and we begin to see a problem.
Personally I would say they add any SEP the creature had left upon death to there own reserves, with the excess being converted into HP at a 4 to 1 rate (4 SEP = 1 HP) any in excess of that are wasted.
maybe add that they don't have to personally kill the being whose soul they are eating, as long as the soul wasn't purified or eaten by something else. since most Bount abilities are tide to their dolls, by the way its written now, the Bount would have to eat souls from either living humans, or spirits infinitely weaker than they are. and that would take away so many character types and roll playing options from the Bount's player.
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Post by rater202 on Apr 22, 2013 7:41:13 GMT -5
I think there was some misunderstanding yesterday. the with the class feature I suggested would apply only to ability damage, level drain, and instant death effects caused by death or ageing effects. so while it would protect from an attack by a life draining Zanpakuto, it would not negate ability damage caused by poison, or by a wounding weapon.
that, coupled with the level limit, would keep the ability from being to broken.
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 22, 2013 23:53:31 GMT -5
I think there was some misunderstanding yesterday. the with the class feature I suggested would apply only to ability damage, level drain, and instant death effects caused by death or ageing effects. so while it would protect from an attack by a life draining Zanpakuto, it would not negate ability damage caused by poison, or by a wounding weapon. that, coupled with the level limit, would keep the ability from being to broken. ah, that makes it much, much better. I thought you meant full immunity to all abilisty damage --- makes sense so, anyone killed by the bounto or their doll then? as though flavourful, being able to eat any soul and regain its SEP might be pushing a little to close to the unlimited mark (assuming it's one bount in a party of 3-4, there's probably going to be enough leftover SEP from all defeated foes to fill the bounto from next to 0 to full) or at least the point where the bounto really dosen't need to think about conservation in the slightest.
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Post by rater202 on Apr 23, 2013 7:41:03 GMT -5
[quoteso, anyone killed by the bounto or their doll then? as though flavourful, being able to eat any soul and regain its SEP might be pushing a little to close to the unlimited mark (assuming it's one bount in a party of 3-4, there's probably going to be enough leftover SEP from all defeated foes to fill the bounto from next to 0 to full) or at least the point where the bounto really dosen't need to think about conservation in the slightest.[/quote]
Seams fair. Maybe add a clause stating that the Bount doesn't have to eat the souls from every kill. there may be situations when the Bount doesn't want to eat the soul of someone they kill.
For example the Bount may find Himself in a situation were a friend has to be mercy killed. Unless the Bount in question is a sociopath, I would be out of character for them to eat the soul in that case.
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