turalisj
Lieutenant
Lazy Bastard
Posts: 132
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Post by turalisj on Dec 4, 2011 9:24:14 GMT -5
Could you list the changes made? I've got a game about to start and it makes it easier on everyone if people know what was changed in the class.... I see that BaB improved and the quincy no longer have npc class equivalent of defense modifier. Any other changes? edit: Um... I don't think you entered the base attack bonus correctly.... It should be +1 every level
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Post by blackestofmages on Dec 4, 2011 9:40:01 GMT -5
I don't think we have any definate changes made other than BaB.
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thewinterking
Seated
This is my Beedrill. He likes to hug people.
Posts: 89
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Post by thewinterking on Dec 4, 2011 16:43:41 GMT -5
Spirit Charge Output: The maximum number of Spirit Charges a Quincy may expend in one turn. Umm.. no. Spirit Charge Output is a misnomer. It is how many SC you gain from taking an action to absorb SC from the environment. There is no limit to the number of SC a quincy can spend each turn. Also I dont like that most Shunpo feats cannot be taken by Quincy
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Post by blackestofmages on Dec 4, 2011 17:10:36 GMT -5
@ Nero: unless we're changing how the quincy work, TWK is rightt. right now, thats how much charging up gets you @ shunpo feats: they all can, the moment you hit level 5, since theres the disclaimer at the top of the section that says for simmilar things the max you can move at once is your shunpo distance
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Post by Nerameshu on Dec 4, 2011 20:11:25 GMT -5
So now I'm the bad guy from the newest Star Trek movie? Greeeaaaaat. There was ruling at one point that stated the SCO was how much the Quincy could use in a turn, but I guess it's not there anymore. Hrm. Also, instead of giving the Quincy full BAB, I upped it just a little, so a 20th level Quincy could make four attacks, with a positive bonus at first. I will likely change it again, not quite to full, but close. And yes, the Quincy defense was updated.
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turalisj
Lieutenant
Lazy Bastard
Posts: 132
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Post by turalisj on Dec 4, 2011 20:13:44 GMT -5
Well, personally, I'm going to houserule that they get full. Going anything between is just plain stupid.
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Post by Nerameshu on Dec 4, 2011 20:16:47 GMT -5
I just did this to test a few things out.
By the way, when does your game start?
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turalisj
Lieutenant
Lazy Bastard
Posts: 132
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Post by turalisj on Dec 4, 2011 20:19:16 GMT -5
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Post by Nerameshu on Dec 4, 2011 20:31:31 GMT -5
I was wondering because I'm working on some of the other ideas presented for the Quincies, and will be trying to get part of it done tonight.
Edit: The full list of Bows, updated to include some forum suggestions. Let me know what you think:
Short Bow: A small bow that allows its user to maneuver effectively while remaining capable of attacking. When attacking with this bow, simply use the information listed above for range and damage, and may move both before and after his/her attack a number of feet equal to his/her speed. This character receives an automatic +1 to their attack rolls with this bow. In addition they may lower their damage by up to their base attack bonus, gaining the same amount as a bonus to hit.
Longbow: A large bow that makes it harder to maneuver, but gives its user great control over their shots. The Quincy may take a penalty up to their base attack bonus to gain twice as much bonus damage. In addition, the Quincy gains +2 to their damage rolls with this bow.
Crossbow: A powerful bow that relies on a trigger to fire it. When attacking with this bow, use the information listed above, but decrease the range by 10 ft., and use the damage from one level higher. At level 20, it has a damage of 2d10. This character receives an automatic +1 to their attack rolls with this bow. All Bow Attributes that give bonus damage have their die sizes increase by one.
Web Bow: A bow with a weblike structure, allowing its user to fire multiple shots at once, with some difficulty. When attacking with this bow, each individual attack becomes two attacks with a -5 to hit after all other calculations. All modifiers that would affect that singular attack are applied to both of the attacks. Decrease the range by 10 ft. Cascade of Arrows Master Shot costs 10 less Spirit Charges.
Whip Bow: A bow in function only, it uses a cord to sling arrows at the target. A Quincy using a Whip Bow may make Attacks of Opportunity that threaten within two squares of them, but still only the normal number per turn. In addition, the Whip Bow can be used to trip, disarm, or grapple (and pin) opponents within ten feet.
Handbow: A small, compact bow that can be manifested quickly. A Quincy using a handbow halves the range of their bow and suffers a -1 penalty to damage. However, the Quincy threatens all squares within 10 ft. and does not invoke attacks of opportunity when attacking. Manifesting a Handbow is a swift action that does not invoke an attack of opportunity.
Throwing Blades: A peculiar take on the Quincy bow that takes some mastering. The Quincy manifests many tiny cross-shaped blades of energy (or similar items) rather than a bow, which float around the Quincy's wrists. Whenever a Quincy makes a full attack action, they can make one attack against all enemies within 5 ft. per attack, up to a maximum of twice their maximum number of attacks. Using Throwing Blades counts as a light thrown weapon, rather than a ranged weapon.
Pistol: A weapon of the modern Quincy, looked down on by traditionalists. A Quincy bow made in the Pistol form requires only one hand to use, and is treated as a light weapon. Due to the focus created by the compact form of the Pistol, the Quincy's critical multiplier increases by one step (to x3) and deals extra damage equal to one-half the Quincy's level. In addition, the cost to use the Master Shot Shoot Away changes to the damage dealt multiplied by 2. A Quincy using a Pistol bow may choose to dual wield Pistol bows. Doing so creates two Pistol bows from a single Quincy cross. Shooting a Pistol bow incurs a -2 To Hit penalty due to recoil, and using Master Shots (other than Shoot Away) increases the Master Shot's cost by 1/4.
Rifle: A further advancement of the modern Pistol form, the Rifle Bow is also treated by traditionalists as over-complicated messes. A Rifle bow deals damage as though it were a bow one level higher (see Crossbow) plus the Quincy's level. (2d10+20 at level 20.) A Quincy using the Rifle bow increases it's range by 1/2 and ignores 5 points of damage reduction (10 points at 10th level). Using the Piercing Arrow Master Shot with a Rifle bow decreases the cost by 15. Shooting a Rifle Bow incurs a -2 To Hit penalty due to recoil, and using Master Shots (other than Piercing Arrow) increases the cost by 1/4.
Edit2: Make this not automatically lethal:
Meltdown Prerequisites: Acidic bloodstream. The quincy can manipulate the acid in their victim, cleansing the unfortunate soul to have it burst out in a burst with a range of corrosive blood and guts. This costs 6 spirit charges. The victim(s) of acidic bloodstream emit a spherical burst with a radius of 1/3 quincy level * 5 ft, causing acidic ability damage to everyone hit, with a reflex save (dc 10 + ½ character level + wis or dex modifier) for half damage. The creatures effected by acidic bloodstream suffer full damage automatically (no save) this is a standard action.
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Post by blackestofmages on Dec 5, 2011 7:40:18 GMT -5
ummm, thats the same as my meltdown minus te victims of the origional being cured
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Post by flarelord on Dec 5, 2011 12:43:07 GMT -5
I still strongly disagree with the accuracy penalty to pistols.
My preferences for the bows are to 1 ) Make them ALL move-equivilent to summon, the construction gives no edge either way. 2) Bow Types - Make them slight edges with no distinct drawbacks. Choice of weapon should be partially character-based, these edges go boeyond the difference between actuall weapon types of real weapons, (for good reason), but they also have th eneed to tack on penalties, which ends up meaning that someone who wants the flavor of a certain bow can't use it due to steep penalties.
*shrug* Master shot cost multiplication is bad enough a penalty on its own, IMO. My two cents. Making it where the bows are distinct,massive defining characteristics does kind of set a precedent for the bow type having a greater impact on what it does (Arguably a good thing) - but at the same time it removes some flavor choices from players. - Just something worth considering...
As for bow attributes, some,like elemental, acid, and such don't make lots of sense for Quincy. But *shrug* I'm not a designer, just someone who's trying to figure this mess out XD;
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Post by blackestofmages on Dec 5, 2011 12:56:07 GMT -5
OK, now you're just talking crazy the entire bow is made purely out of energy. Electricity/Cold etc are also a form of energy. Adding effects that change the energy it's firing (thats all they're doing) makes more sense than most of the other things for the bows such as why would shooting an arrow at someone heal you, but no be able to set something on fire? one's technically impossible without magic, one exists in actual ranged weapons. If I shoot energy at someone, why does it make no sense for that energy to be potentially colder, that's just basic thremodynical transference, but it make sense for me shooting energy at someone giving me defence Think of them like different types of ammunition avaliable, and it makes a lot more sense. Heck, I could see your argument if it was why should Eh, describe your bow how you want, we're not forcing you to make each bow with the X construction actually look and act like that specific bow, just setting out different effects. If you have no imagination, don't complain about us not spoon-feeding any to you I'm against making each bow identical. there's not all that much that we can justify for bows (though adding energy to energy is very justifiable) so making all these the same would make all quincies kinda samey though I do agree about not using the -2 to hit/extra cost versions of the Pistol/Rifle. those where kinda sucky
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thewinterking
Seated
This is my Beedrill. He likes to hug people.
Posts: 89
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Post by thewinterking on Dec 5, 2011 13:10:22 GMT -5
On a different note, can Quincy get some bonus feats? Every other class does and Archery is feat heavy (Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Greater Manyshot to name just whats in the srd).
Bonus feats! Bonus feats! Bonus feats! Bonus feats! Bonus feats!
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Post by outlawjt on Dec 5, 2011 13:16:51 GMT -5
I agree they should get some bonus feats. Maybe the regular Expert Shinigami progression? Maybe pull a page from Pathfinder ranger and have their bonus feat list limited to feats only applicable to a combat style. In their case, archery; although I might add melee feats for anyone who specializes in seele schneider.
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turalisj
Lieutenant
Lazy Bastard
Posts: 132
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Post by turalisj on Dec 5, 2011 13:23:20 GMT -5
I've said that before and got this answer, more or less:
"Dude, why should we give them bonus feats! They have more class features that should be enough, right?"
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