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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 19, 2013 16:32:23 GMT -5
welcome to the forum looks good mechanically, save it's weight would still be nothing (what with it being made of energy) though it dosen't really have much of an effect on the substitute shinigami capstone - since the main selling point is the weapon becomes enchanted from then onwards, and the fact it can become a sword is just flavourful window dressing (what with quincy having the highest mobility so far, and needing to be level 11 minimum by then so I'm going to assume they've been built for ranged combat) - and having this construction dosen't grant that another reason for not changing is it that every shinigami should have a sword in some form, and I don't want to limit people to having to choose this construction to get it and thus have swordless shinigami, or even worse, a prestige class that requires a specific bow build. as to the question about soul burial; yes, yes it does - though since we don't have rules for soul burial yet it's not stated anywhere XD
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rater202
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Post by rater202 on Apr 20, 2013 7:46:09 GMT -5
I was thinking the change would only apply to Quincies that had this bow construction. They already have a sword, so they would need something else as the capstone. Though in hindsight my original suggestion seems a bit unfair, gaining a bankai abilities just because you have a sword all ready doesn't really make sense dose it? Maybe a bonus feat from the weapon supremacy line?
What I meant by weight was whether the weapon counted as a light, one handed, or two handed weapon. Apologies about the confusion.
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 20, 2013 12:53:27 GMT -5
weapon specilization applying to your blade, or mayhaps allow the blade to count as a scheele schnieder at all times? and gotcha about the weight.
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rater202
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Post by rater202 on Apr 20, 2013 13:56:00 GMT -5
Weapon specialization with the blade, or a similar feat if weapon specialization is all ready possessed.Add the enhancement bonus granted By the normal "Blade of the Quincy" class feature and we have a decent* ability for our substitutes who already had a sword.
Having it count as a Scheele Schneider doesn't really make sense, since a Scheele Schneider is used as a sword primarily to build up charge so that it can be used as an arrow and you can't fire your sword from your bow, since the sword is your bow. then when you consider that the Blade construction all ready lets you count as having proficiency with a Scheele Schneider** would mean you would not need to take Scheele Schneider Proficiency to become a substitute, and thus might not be able to use any of the special abilities associated with the Scheele Schneider
I also noticed that you did not comment on my idea about allowing Quincy with this construction to optionally take the weapon type instead of projectile on becoming a substitute.
*warning, author of this post is a self admitted munchkin; so anything said on balance should be taken with a grain of salt ;D
** I added that as an after thought in my original draft. My logic was " If I already have a Sword, why do I need to learn to use a fancy arrow as a sword, just so I can get better at using a sword." seeing as every thing that requires Scheele Schneider Proficiency so far has involved swordsmanship to some extent.
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 21, 2013 15:47:44 GMT -5
scheele schneider uses dex to hit rather than strength - means they wouldn't need to invest in some points of strength, which helps reduce MaD (only needing dex, wis and con rather than dex, str, wis and con) without having to invest abilities.
I'd say no. to quote Uryu "A quincy is an archer first" - even as a substitute, the shinigami is secondary, whereas the quincy is the main part, and even with the sword construction, every other part of the quincy is still an archer.
so I'd still rather keep them archer focuses if possible, which is where projectile works.
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rater202
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Post by rater202 on Apr 21, 2013 18:59:13 GMT -5
Fair point, and there is really nothing stopping our substitute from taking weapon with their other type.
I would like to point out that Uryu is a traditionalist, however, and that very few of the named Vandenreich seem to be archers; focusing instead on the humans with mysterious powers angle. To be honest I always got the Feeling that Uryu was talking out his hind courters when going on about that sort of thing any way, but that's probably just me.
While on this topic, maybe there should be a few alternate class features for not traditional Quincies. or maybe a prestige class? In the new arch, we have the chick who makes you see your worst fear, the guy who turns into an ape thing instead of using a weapon, an other girl with a compelling voice, and god knows what else is in that army, all in addition to our standard set of powers. something to work on later I suppose. I don't realy care I'm just making suggestions
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Post by blackestofmages on Apr 21, 2013 19:23:50 GMT -5
indeed maybe, but since a number of the Vandereich (even if we don't know for sure about the elites) are confirmed to be arrancar rather than quincy, it's a bit of a stretch to say it applies to all quincy. and even amongst the quincy vandereich shown so far, they've all still been ranged attack specialists. Ishida, Ryuuken, Shouzen and Mashiro have all been pure archers (well, Ryuken uses his bow singlehandedly more like a machinegun that happens to be curved, but regardless) Äs Nödt (the fear guy) needed to penetrate you with his ranged spirit needles for the fear ability to activate Discroll uses arrows, even if they are the size of spears, still arrows. Berenice died before we saw how she fought because she started bragging to kenpachi... Zhaz uses spiritual thrown knives Yweh may manifest a a sword, but his strongest abilitiy is to fire spirit arrows from said sword (effectivly the bow construction you suggested) rather than hit people with it. NaNaNa hasn't used any abilites yet other than the fire teleport they all pulled off, and Lloyd and Royd have only been seen copying Yweh, so we don't know how that lot would have fought. so, so far only Bambietta and Haschwalth have focused on close quater combat, and even that may be called to question with Bambietta, who used her sword boredly and when forced to fight someone powerful, imediatly stole his own bankai and hit him with it probably just you, because all 3 quincy introduced prior to this arc was an archer I wouldn;t say alternate classes, thouhg I'd agree about prestige classes. The thing is, each quincy we've seen deviate from the archer mold fully has been an elite agent of the quincy elite, so PrC probably fits better than AcF
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rater202
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Post by rater202 on Apr 21, 2013 21:56:33 GMT -5
Fair enough.
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